Friday, 26 September 2014

No 11200, Friday 26 Sep 2014, Incognito


Where are the Friends and countrymen? ;-) No samosa for me today as I'm stumped for some annos :-(

ACROSS
1   Bulge out for short time before being unpleasant (8) PROTRUDE {PRO}{T}{RUDE}
5   Girl is mad about Germany’s un-powered aircraft (6) GLIDER {GLI{DE}R*}
10 Alien's principle (5) TENET {TEN}{ET} Clue number on double duty!
11 Animals like horses and donkeys consume bovine creature when days and nights are equal (9) EQUINOXES {EQUIN{OX}ES}
12 Documents father has for every son (6) PAPER {PA}{PER}{S}
13 Dr. House's internist (8) THIRTEEN [GK] Thanks to Google [DD] - See comments
15 Tiara smashed into an Indian dish (5) RAITA*
17 Sailor and soldiers consumed (ate) before initial temperature reduction (9) ABATEMENT {B}{TE}{MEN}{T} Was there a necessity to clarify 'consumed'? Seecomments
19 Eat too much fodder from land on great Arizona estate initially (9) OVERGRAZE OVER{GR}{AZ}{Estate} Anno for 'OVER' not clear See comments
20 Look up data about leaders of first European republics (5) REFER {RE}{F}{E}{R}
21 Ancient jurisprudence is surprisingly normal with a woman ... (5,3) ROMAN LAW {ROMAN L*}{A}{W}
23 ... brothel keeper taking posh car for doctor's weed (6) MARRAM MA(-d+rr)RRAM
27 Unite a prisoner with prison and brew tea (9) CONJUGATE {CON}{JUG}{TEA*}
28 Cricket side, Edward, is murdered in America (5) O (Addendum - OFFED {OFF}{ED} - See comments) Don't know how I missed entering this?
29 South African Minister of State had a fried Indian snack (6) SAMOSA {SA}{MOS}{A} ... and so will many others today!
30 Gamble, without a note, and with hesitation, for an instrument (8) SPECULUM {SPECULate}{UM}

DOWN
1   Raised a little dog in Chandigarh, say. Quite the contrary! (3,2) PUT UP {P{UT} UP}
2   Wine-lover remodelled pigeonhole after first glass was dropped (9) OENOPHILE PIgEONHOLE*
3   Rotating part model with a ball on each side is held by bishop (5) ROTOR {R{O}{T}{O}R}
4   Deleted — deleted initial half of letter in document (4) DEED DEletED
6   Mad Pitman left un-parliamentary composition for some time (5,4) LUNAR YEAR UN-pARLiamEntARY*
7   Pass away around 9 in the southern United States (5) DIXIE {D{IX}IE}
8   Roman senator is confused after man leaves wave generator (9) RESONATOR {ROman+SENATOR}*
9   Super heat mixture in Middle Eastern river (9) EUPHRATES*
14 Man, a lay lama, adapted a South Indian language (9) MALAYALAM {M+A+LAY+LAMA}*
15 RAF crooks design luggage carriers (4,5) ROOF RACKS*
16 Jason's fleet mates say, “Northern Australia” in many languages (9) ARGONAUTS ARGO{NA}UTS Anno pending (Addendum - {ARGO{N}{AU}TS} - See comments)
18 Spill fuel around first stronghold. That is strenuous (9) EFFORTFUL {E{F}{FORT}FUL*} 'F' for first? 
22 Roman money for short skirt held up by male (5) MINIM {MINI}{M} or is it {M}{INIM<=}
24 A zoo in-charge throws out an egg — it is lifeless (5) AZOIC {A}{ZOo}{IC}
25 Lady Lovelace is in the custody of two Frenchmen, milady (5) MADAM {M}{ADA}{M} I'm Adam!
26 Look both ways (4) PEEP <=>


GRID

88 comments:

  1. 19 Eat too much fodder from land on great Arizona estate initially (9) OVERGRAZE OVER{GR}{AZ}{Estate} Anno for 'OVER' not clear

    OVER = ON

    ReplyDelete
  2. 17 Sailor and soldiers consumed (ate) before initial temperature reduction (9) ABATEMENT {B}{TE}{MEN}{T} Was there a necessity to clarify 'consumed'?

    Otherwise how does 'ate' come in between AB & MEN?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Before is needed for surface.

      Delete
    2. But then why consumed?

      Delete
    3. What's this?
      Consumed is c/c ind. ATE is the content.

      Delete
    4. Then what's 'before' if not for surface?

      Delete
    5. AB(ATE)MEN || T
      before............

      Delete
    6. In my post at 835 I'd said that consumed was c/c ind. Then what's before for? Do you mean it should be placed between AB (ATE) and MEN and not anywhere in ABMEN? If so it's not needed and if not I've woken up from the wrong side of my bed today.

      Delete
    7. I was endorsing the blogger's query ... If before is a position indicator , as I took it to be, then consumed need not have been clarified further. If consumed c/c ind then, before as Raghu says is only for surface..

      Delete
    8. Sailor = AB
      and
      soldiers = MEN
      consumed = Inserticator
      (ate) = ATE
      before = Position indicator
      initial temperature = T
      reduction = {AB}{ATE}{MEN}{T}

      Delete
    9. If there is an inserticator why do you need a position ind? It indicates position of which word?

      Delete
    10. Lemme put it in words:

      Sailor (AB) and soliders (MEN) consumed (insertion indicator) ATE (inserted matter) = AB(ATE)MEN

      (all of which is placed) before

      initial temperature (T)

      Delete
    11. OK I am not arguing, but more for clarification. If an inserticator is provided, what is the need for a position indicator. Insert always is in between when only two components are there , in this case AB & MEN ? If there are more components, it would have been needed.

      Delete
    12. Kishore,

      You would need 'before' in case T was leading AB ATE MEN. However the sequence of words is such that you don't need an indicator apart from surface reading duty

      Delete
    13. The usage is similar to use of 'by' in many clues to signify 'next to' in a charade. Not absolutely necessary, but still used for surface reading and as a positioning indicator in the cryptic reading.

      Shri, the position indicator is not for the insertion. It is for placing the post-insertion text in front of the T

      Delete
    14. You're the setter and your word is final!

      Delete
    15. And hope there's an "abatement" in the no. of comments on this clue:)

      Delete
    16. OK ,now I get it .. With so many palindromes today I should have looked either way :)

      Delete
    17. The anno was "ullangai nellikkani" (I.e, if you have a gooseberry in your cupped palm, it's so patent, so clear, so palpable...).
      I am amazed it required so much clarification - that too in this forum.

      Delete
    18. I still don't agree with you.

      Delete
    19. Raghunath, "before" in this clue may not be absolutely necessary, but it's not doing the clue no harm either. Without "before" surface may suffer, so the setter has used the word as a positional indicator, though redundant. It's all right as I see it.

      Take this clue from one of the recent FT crosswords...

      Time to request team’s changed before manager finally becomes a slave driver (10) T ASK MASTE* R

      Again, in the above clue, "before" is not absolutely necessary, yet it's used as the surface needed it and additionally, it serves as an appropriate positional indicator. So no problem again

      Delete
    20. IMO it's for surface only. In both the clues if you remove 'before' it does not make sense. The sequence of words renders it redundant otherwise

      Delete
    21. Yes, it's for surface - additionally, a redundant positional indicator. Anywho, with or without it, clue works. So no problem.

      Delete
    22. Can anyone explain (17-A), why additional 'ate' in bracket, when 'consumed' also means the?

      Delete
  3. 16 Jason's fleet mates say, “Northern Australia” in many languages (9) ARGO{N}{AU}TS

    Argots: Languages

    ReplyDelete
  4. 23 ... brothel keeper taking posh car for doctor's weed (6) MARRAM MA(-d+rr)RRAM

    D= DR?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. D.Litt. ,
      PhD
      JD
      LLD
      MD
      not &lit :-)

      Delete
    2. I feel it's not fair to use part of a valid abbreviate and treat it as whole. If we thought it was okay, then N would be NATIONS (as in UN), D could be DIRECT (as in FDI), T may be TREATY (as in NATO) and so on...

      Delete
    3. That's what I had asked at 9.03.

      Delete
  5. Cricket side, Edward, is murdered in America (5) {OFF}{ED}

    Meaning: murdered in American parlance.

    ReplyDelete
  6. 15 Tiara smashed into an Indian dish (5) RAITA*

    At first I thought he surface reading was implausible. But a moment's thought enlightened me. Dish has the sense of 'food' as def but 'utensil' in surface reading. A tiara, by some smashing, might be transformed into an implement for some other purpose.

    Crossword setters have a weird mind. (Maybe solvers too?)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I took it as a girl by name Tiara collided with a dish

      Delete
    2. As long as you did not think an Indian dish also referred to a girl

      Delete
    3. CV, Like swords into ploughshares

      Delete
    4. Too many girls in this clue ! ;-) But,honestly, can there really be too many ?!

      Delete
    5. Come on, Incognito. So much story-building shouldn't be required of the solver to make sense of a clue's surface :-) The palindrome theme is nicely done, but RAITA jamaa nahin.

      Delete
    6. Bangalore main bahut barsaat hai. Main paani paani ho gaya

      Delete
    7. Well even I thought the surface was weird... Tiara smashed into food? LOL Hard to wonder how such a situation may arise..

      Delete
    8. At the banquet, the queen discovered that the tiara was not gold, it was just gold plated. She threw it. The Tiara smashed into an Indian dish.

      Smashed is not only broken into pieces, it is also hit with great force. As in:
      The plane smashed into the mountainside.

      Delete
    9. This sounds like some scene from Laurel & Hardy

      Delete
  7. Tiara may be smashed into 'dish' (raita). But can raita be re-prepared as TIARA?

    ReplyDelete
  8. A crossword setter's dictionary
    If you look both ways, you PEEP.
    If he looks both ways, he SEES.

    ReplyDelete
  9. 18 Spill fuel around first stronghold. That is strenuous (9) EFFORTFUL {E{F}{FORT}FUL*} 'F' for first?

    As in first floor FF, first class FC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So can we take C= Class and F= Floor?

      Delete
  10. Nice one & a pangram too

    ReplyDelete
  11. Replies
    1. Yes, with clue number ...

      Delete
    2. 13 comes in 13A!
      Anything to do with 12 houses of Zodiac?

      Delete
    3. In 10, the clue number provides part of the charade, whereas here it provides a defn

      Delete
  12. Run around- I mean Palindrome!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sharp eyed Padmanabhan!

      Delete
    2. You are correct, Paddy.

      I thought DG had got it, especially with his comment "Madam I'm Adam" which itself is a palindrome. I think CV was hinting this at 851 when he gave the illustration of PEEP and SEES

      Delete
    3. Oh my!
      Very clever.
      But how many swine pick up these pearls?

      Delete
    4. Let's go the whole hog!

      Delete
    5. This not only stood out, but helped me to get a few also. Thank you for the compliments, but I was a little surprised it was not mentioned earlier.

      Delete
  13. I thought so too.
    Palindromes-
    A/c- Tenet, Refer, Marram,
    Dn- Put up, Rotor, Deed, Malayalam, Minim, Madam, Peep
    Totals to 10!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Shri at 925
    With so many palindromes today I should have looked either way :)

    That reminds me, in India, one has to look either way before crossing a one-way street

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Even further Kishore .. It is like 1 Dn , 3 Dn & 10 Ac

      Delete
  15. Raised a little dog in Chandigarh, say. Quite the contrary! (3,2)
    ***
    This is a very good clue.
    Raised - def
    a little dog in Chandigarh say = PUP in UT
    Quite the contrary - no, no it is Chandigarh, say in a little dog = UT in PUP so we get the answer P(UT) UP

    This clue type is found often in UK crosswords.

    I don't think I have deployed this device in any of my crosswords..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let's hope we see one in one of these days...

      Delete
    2. Thanks, CV. I am trying different things from my arsenal. Sometimes it fires well, but sometimes it back-fires

      Delete
  16. My " I thought so too" referred to K's remark about Col. & CV's remarks- it is posted a little out of order.

    ReplyDelete
  17. In all the heated debate which has seen no 'abatement' forgot to congratulate Incognito for the theme.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Replies
    1. How could you post the score at 1123 at 1112?

      Delete
    2. This Phantom is ahead of his time. ;)

      The clock on my cell phone is fast and I noticed it after posting.

      Delete
  19. Thanks again K for the SAMOSA. I never thought there would an answer SAMOSA when you said it yesterday.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Power failure - hence could not log in earlier

    ReplyDelete
  21. 4 hr power cuts back in Hyd.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Wonderful xie.All workable clues.To cite a few 1, 28,30a18d.28 a & 2d usages news to me.In fine, cognitively a complete puzzle.Thank you IC.

    ReplyDelete
  23. With DD fiasco, the setter could have used Chinese President returning.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Dr House serial in star world. He calls one of his interns 13.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Kishore : Did I speak too'soon yesterday? The child has just started in Class I and how can you catapult it right away to Plus 2 ? Today's crossie is so unrecognizable as Incognito's !!

    In your palindr(a)omatic anxiety, you had presumed that the poor kid will turn out to be whizz-kid in crossies? This smacked of the Telegraph's Toughie !! DONOTDO this again.
    Annotations are rotated in a rotor !!

    ReplyDelete